Buffyverse - Lilah - Player's Comments and Discussion

So, a couple of thoughts as tidbits for discussion...

Should there be encounters designed specifically, not to challenge, but to kill off, characters? In the very first encounter, random selection had everything to do with if a PC was going to be killed. If Aura or Kenneday had been on thier own near the start of the encounter for any (small) number of rounds, they would have (both) been dead. As it was, when Aura did appear, she was the only one the Vampires could attack and was quickly down to 16 hits. Sheer luck of when a PC appears and where (on the map) rather than decisions by the player influenced life or death to a greater degree. How would have Ember done on her own? This encounter was actually designed for Ash, how would he have fared all alone against all the monsters for several rounds? If any PC rolled a "1" on the d12 and all other players rolled "high"...could any PCs except for Blade and Angelus have survived? Even Angelus, if left alone long enough against enough monsters, even if he is below zero, he can still be "killed" if brought below his bloodied value, right? The way 4.0 is written, PC's can die once in a while on very challenging encounters when there is poor teamwork or poor decisions by the player, or very, very, bad luck or some combination of the three but was this encounter in that vein?


In the enounter with the mind flayers, were they there specifically to slay Angelus? Just wondering by making him die at zero rather than at his negative bloodied value, effectively reducing his effective hit point by a third? It's noted that I think this was one of the best examples in recent memory of teamwork in taking down a party of really tough monsters as quickly as possible, despite the loss of Angelus near the end of the fight. As the Warlord, I really liked this battle.

I don't think I have any issue with the last fight. A good mix of monsters made the battle interesting. Man, that one Gargoyle was just TOO heavy to push off the edge of the building. Reminded me of the time when Reptis failed about 12 saving throws in a row. I really liked this battle too.

Note, at the end of the adventure, total, Kenneday had used only two of her 12 healing surges and never really felt that she was in serious danger of dying at anytime during the adventure although the excitement of the fight was definately present.

What do you all think?

Had a good time.

The first encounter could definitely had killed a couple of PCs because of poor die rolls. We got extremely lucky that Blade was the one ambushed and that Angelus was next and happened to have boots that allowed him to go after the drones.

I agree that story lines where a PC is to be killed should be done online instead of in person. Having a person sit around for 3-4 hours while the rest of the party completes the mission would be very unfair for the player of the slain PC.

The party did very well in the Mind Flayer encounter. Angelus death was expected.. Focus fire with those types of monsters could kill anyone, Angelus is a bit easier since he stays near or below zero HP.

I do think the party needs a true defender and will probably switch to my backup PC if I can work things out with Brad. (sent a couple of emails, not sure why they're not getting through).

The last encounter didn't seem like Level+3, more like Level+0. Are you counting the PCs as 17th, with the stat boost they're they'll throw off the curve a bit.

I think the Stat boost does give us about +2 bump. I think it might have been a different encounter if we went to the penthouse without the Extended Rest.

I also think Angelus dying at the end of the Flayer encounter was pretty much a fluke. It wasn't aimed specifically at Angelus, but it was an an enemy that could actually kill Angelus. And he kind of placed himself in a position for it to happen.

Also the first encounter in a different setting would probably have killed me as well, as those flying HK's hit hard and can see in any environment (darkness and invisible creatures) with unlimited range. Like Brad said, he was expecting to kill the ambushed person. It would have been a fun 6 hours for that person to sit out for the rest of the night too.

I'm writing a recap, should be up in a couple days. Note: I did try to solicit feedback on where everyone is staying, no one responded. That helped the first encounter be so deadly. (Even though it was the 2nd one that turned out that way.) If, say, 4 of you responded that you're staying in Giles' old house, I would not have expected that encounter to kill a PC. Logically, the Vampires would start to take the fight to the Slayers instead of waiting around to be attacked. Might want to think about where you want to stay...

ELs should have been +1 first encounter ambush, (not including staggered PC starts, which I don't know how to calculate... clearly some big add), +3 EL Mind Flayer assasins, +2 EL Lyla's penthouse. (Encounter levels 18, 20, & 19)

Ross wrote:And he kind of placed himself in a position for it to happen.

Although I knew he'd probably get killed chasing after two wounded Mind Flayers, Angelus couldn't have known that they'd kill him. If it were any othter type of monster he'd do the same thing without hesitation.

@ Dwarmaj - ran into Lord Gamwich (well the player) and after not seeing the guy in like 20 years, the first questions he asks me are; are you guys still playing (D&D)?
Followed by; is Merlin still alive and does Ken still play the same (way)? (it was in a more nostalgic and fond memory tone of voice than a "death to chaotic power hungry wizards" tone).

Yep, roll playing over Meta-Gaming...like that.

Next game we should definetly invite some of the old time player. If nothing else they could watch for a bit and have fun going over some old memories.

Dwarmaj wrote:

Ross wrote:And he kind of placed himself in a position for it to happen.

Although I knew he'd probably get killed chasing after two wounded Mind Flayers, Angelus couldn't have known that they'd kill him. If it were any othter type of monster he'd do the same thing without hesitation.

True. Thanks for playing that in character. Now Angelus knows there are some rare creatures that can kill him (though he doesn't know quite how rare). If he had missed instead of criticaled, that would have been the quickest and easiest encounter. Note: The Mind Flayer assasins weren't trying to target Angelus so much as role play how Lyla would act as she was in the show. It was the first encounter you guys survived that I thought was going to kill somebody not the second. I wanted to throw in something that could at least pose a threat to Angelus, but I think everyone would agree that encounter was not the overwhelming one. Plus, again, he had to roll good on his last attack. He couldn't survive a decent hit from any of you when he got you, so that was his last try.

Dwarmaj wrote:Next game we should definetly invite some of the old time player. If nothing else they could watch for a bit and have fun going over some old memories.

They could play Gravin, the Dwarven fighter Chris' friend made too... You'll have to update the level for him. Fighter seems like an easy class to start with.

Teramotos wrote:
So, a couple of thoughts as tidbits for discussion...

...Sheer luck of when a PC appears and where (on the map) rather than decisions by the player influenced life or death to a greater degree.

No. Roleplaying could have made a big difference. This wasn't targeting Ashe so much as targeting who killed the Mayor. Lyla would have seen Ashe drop the Mayor from the blue (weaker) police drone that survived to the end. This encounter was planned for whoever killed the Mayor. Note: When I set this up, I also reminded everyone that when Giles left, he left behind a 4-bedroom house. If Ashe (or whoever in his place) said they were living there, along with 3 others of you, only the rest, if any, would have been staggered in. Ashe would have been cut off, but the other 3 could have been right there to take down baddies & take heat off Ashe. This would have been a nothing encounter then. Luck of the die was a second way out, that worked.

Sheer luck of when a PC appears and where (on the map) rather than decisions by the player influenced life or death to a greater degree.

Sheer luck is part of the game when you use dice to determine the outcome of almost every action.

How would have Ember done on her own?

Ember has decent ACs and many interupts but I would guess she may last one or two rounds longer then Aura or Kenneday. Any PC alone is at risk of dying. Even Angelus.

Alone we are weak but together we can be invincible.

Did Angelus get raised from the dead?
Can Revenants be raised?

Mick wrote:Did Angelus get raised from the dead?
Can Revenants be raised?

Yes, he got raised.

Revenants can be raised as often as the Raven Queen allows...

Brad, what happen to the recap?