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Triggering Items for Death Saves

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1 Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:38 am

Hmmm, my Circlet is (No Action) and lets me reroll any failed save, but I have to use the second result, even if it is lower. The item does say I trigger the use of the daily power, so any items which allow for a reroll of a save cannot be used to reroll death saves as the PC must be consious to "trigger" the item? I could see that if it took a minor action, or even a "triggered" action to use the item, but this is No Action. Discuss...

Circlet of Second Chances - Power (Daily): No Action. Use this power when you fail a saving throw. Reroll the saving throw, using the second result, even if it is lower.


I don't see the restriction on the items use where the PC must trigger the use of the item.

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2 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:46 am

I still don't see how an unconscious PC would be able to use an item.

Even though it takes no action to use, you still have to "use" a daily magic item usage.

Under unsconscious it says that:
You're helpless
You take a -5 penalty to all defenses (forgot about that...)
You can't take actions (I would take this to mean "free" or "no" actions as well).
You fall prone, if possible
You can't flank an enemy

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3 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:09 pm

Ross

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I think it would just kick in. It doesn't say its a free action. It says no action. Basically its the player using it rather than the character.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

4 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:30 pm

Ross wrote:I think it would just kick in. It doesn't say its a free action. It says no action. Basically its the player using it rather than the character.

I don't think it would auto kick in because the PC has to decide to use it.

Otherwise it would only work on the first failed save and automatically use a daily item usage and reroll the save.

Since the PC gets to pick and choose which save it will apply to I don't think he can pick while unconscious.

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5 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:40 pm

I'm pretty sure there's a similar item in the character builder that allowed a player to reroll a death save (with a bonus) if he wanted to. I'll see if I can look it up when I get home and have access to the Character Builder.

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6 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:03 pm

hmmm...based on these other items, I think the Circlet would work when I'm at 0 or fewer hits...anyone else?

Cloak of the Phoenix - Power (Daily) No Action: Use this power when you are reduced to 0 or fewer hits. Deal 3d10 fire damage to all enemies within 3 squares...

Amulet of Resolution - Power (Daily) No Action: Use this power when you fail a saving throw. Reroll the save using the second result, even if it is lower.

Medallion of Death Deferred - Power (Daily) No Action: Use this power when you are reduced to 0 hit points or fewer. You regain hits equal to 3 per plus of this item.

Circlet of Continuity - Power (Enct) No Action: Trigger: You are dazed or stunned at the start of your turn. Effect: You sustain a power that normally requires a minor action to sustain.

Lucky Charm - Power (Daily) No Action: Trigger: You miss with; an attack, fail a skill check, ability check or saving throw. Effect: Roll d6 and add the result to the triggering roll.

Periapt of Wound Closure: Power (Daily) No Action: Trigger: An attack reduces you to 0 hit points or fewer. Effect: You spend a healing surge and regain additional hit points equal to your healing surge value + 10.

Possum Amulet: Power (Daily) No Action: Trigger: An attack reduces you to 0 hit points or fewer. Effect: You are instead reduced to 1 hit point and knocked prone. Enemies believe that you have been reduced to 0 hit points, and you gain total concealment from them until the end of your next turn.

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7 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:10 pm

The items you listed work when a PC goes from greater than zero to zero or fewer. They behave like an Immediate Interrupt.

If you're already at zero or less, I still don't think you can use the items.

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8 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:34 am

Ross

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Another way to look at it is how can a PC make a saving throw to see if they are dead? The PC can't trigger a saving throw. A player isn't willfully making the decision to roll a save, but it still happens.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

9 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:48 am

Teramotos wrote:hmmm...based on these other items, I think the Circlet would work when I'm at 0 or fewer hits...anyone else?

I'm actually about 70/30 leaning towards Ken's view.

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10 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:32 pm

I got a response back from WotC...

Thank you for contacting Wizards of the Coast! According to the rules on the Unconscious condition, an unconscious character cannot take any actions. As the Amulet of Resolution Daily power requires no action you can use it for a failed death save.


I still disagree since it does require the unconscious character to make decisions. If they were being affected by ongoing poison, dazed, and needed to make a Death Save. I don't think an unconscious character should be able to pick and choose which affect they are applying a bonus to.

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11 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:33 pm

Ross

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Admin
Been trying to get you to understand it's not the character using it, it's the player.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

12 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:48 pm

Still seems hokey to me...

It does benefit the PC and shouldn't come up too much...

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13 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:13 pm

No Action items are used by the Player and not the PC. I guess I could have stated my position with less words.

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14 Re: Triggering Items for Death Saves on Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:59 am

Ross

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Admin
Here is a twitter thread I started on the issue. Basically if your dying you can't take actions, but the item says No Action is needed, therefore it can be activated.

http://twitter.com/#!/search/%404e_dnd_dm%20action

Dying
You’re unconscious.
• You’re at 0 or negative hit points.
• You make a death saving throw every round.

Unconscious
You’re helpless.
You take a -5 penalty to all defenses.
You can’t take actions.
You fall prone, if possible.
You can’t flank an enemy.
You are unaware of your surroundings.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

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