http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447238-The-Rules-of-Hidden-Club-I-Think-I-Failed-A-Spot-Check
Last edited by Dwarmaj on Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Q: Once you are Hidden, then what?
A: Anyone who wants to attack you must guess what square you are in. Note that you became Hidden AT THE END of a Move, and you weren't Hidden until after the end of the move. Everyone knew where you were before you became Hidden, which means they knew where you were AFTER you became Hidden. If you haven't moved out of that square, they technically have to guess your location but, really, they're going to guess "where you where when they lost you". If you don't move AFTER becoming Hidden, you're not going to avoid a lot of attacks.
Ross wrote:That's why you want powers that allow you to turn invisible and then you can use your move action to get out of the last square you were visible in. Even if you don't move you're still -5 to hit.
Q: Doesn't all this make Hidden REALLLLLY hard to get and maintain?
A: Kind of, yes - but that's intentional. Being Hidden isn't just about Combat Advantage, it's about virtual immunity to attack. As long as you're Hidden and can get away from your last known location unfollowed, you are almost completely immune to attacks and anything targeting you is almost certainly going to miss, outright, without a roll.
This is very, very powerful. And so it's hard to do. If you're just going Hidden to get Combat Advantage, it's actually a lot easier - but you don't get the immunity to attacks that way.
Dwarmaj wrote:One thing I noticed is that you become hidden at the end of the move action.
Q: Once you are Hidden, then what?
A: Anyone who wants to attack you must guess what square you are in. Note that you became Hidden AT THE END of a Move, and you weren't Hidden until after the end of the move. Everyone knew where you were before you became Hidden, which means they knew where you were AFTER you became Hidden. If you haven't moved out of that square, they technically have to guess your location but, really, they're going to guess "where you where when they lost you". If you don't move AFTER becoming Hidden, you're not going to avoid a lot of attacks.
If you have Total Concealment (invisibility) and use a move action to use stealth and become hidden. The enemies still know what square you're in unless you move again.
Ross wrote:If they move into the space does that hidden person become visible (unless invisible of course)?
Ross wrote:But if your entering the space they are in and you run into them they should at least be visible to the one that ran into them.
Teramotos wrote:Regarding moving into opponent squares, could a creature use their movement incrementally? e.g. if a monster last saw a PC two squares away before the PC became hidden, on the monster's turn, the monster uses its move action first. They move one square and now think they are next to the PC, they attempt to move into what they think the PC's square is and they are able to. So now they know the PC isn't there. The monster still has four squares of movement left so they try moving one square to the left and are able to. Then they try to move two squares to the right and cannot move into the second square so now, w/o a perception check, know where the PC is again.
Hidden Club wrote:Don't let the enemy FIND you. An enemy can spend a Minor Action to roll Perception, and if he beats your Stealth (you DID write it down, right?), you lose Hidden. As well, any enemy who attempts to move into your space automatically finds you, period.
Teramotos wrote:... so, as soon as a monster attempts to enter an invisible PC's square, the PC effectively becomes visible? Monster thinking... "...if that mage who blasted me is invisible, he must be really weak and I know he's around here somewhere... maybe over here, nope. Well maybe here! Want to bash weak wizard... muhahaha..."
Raistlin wrote:So an invis pc would go down to total concealment but a hidden pc would go to found.
Hidden Club wrote:
"Concealment": Partial LOS failure, usually provided by a class feature, terrain feature, or magic item. You are NOT invisible and you CAN be seen. Concealment is enough to MAINTAIN Hidden, but not enough to BECOME hidden.
"Total Concealment": You are invisible. Nobody can see you, but unless you're also Hidden, they still know where you are. You can *become* Hidden, but you are not inherently Hidden.
"Invisible": You have Total Concealment. No, seriously, that's all Invisibility means. Nothing less, NOTHING MORE. Invisibility is NOT Hidden.
"Hidden": The state of being able to conceal your location. If you are Hidden, enemies have to guess your square. If you are not Hidden, they know where you are, at all times.
To recap: IF YOU ARE NOT "HIDDEN", YOUR ENEMIES KNOW WHERE YOU ARE, PERIOD, whether they can see you or not. If something doesn't SAY you are Hidden, you are not Hidden, period.
Raistlin wrote:Ah okay so invis aka total concealment is just that -5 but a hidden pc would go from hidden to total concealment if the monster was able to bump into him/her
PHB wrote:Chameleon Rogue Utility 6
You blend into your surroundings.
At-Will Martial
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Prerequisite: You must have training in Stealth.
Trigger: You are hidden and lose cover or concealment against an enemy.
Effect: You make a Stealth check. If your check beats the triggering enemy’s passive Perception, you remain hidden from it, and until the end of your next turn you can remain hidden from it without needing any cover or concealment.
Ross wrote:This Rogue Power has been helpful for some of my PC's:PHB wrote:Chameleon Rogue Utility 6
You blend into your surroundings.
At-Will Martial
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Prerequisite: You must have training in Stealth.
Trigger: You are hidden and lose cover or concealment against an enemy.
Effect: You make a Stealth check. If your check beats the triggering enemy’s passive Perception, you remain hidden from it, and until the end of your next turn you can remain hidden from it without needing any cover or concealment.
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