Okay, I actually looked quite a bit on line, the Wizard's forum, FAQ, and the PHB, 4.0 Essentials, and the DMG to see how much guidance I could find.
First off, I'm going to consider the "Mark" as an "effect/condition" that the (Fighter) is imposing on the target (monster). All of my logic follows from this assumption.
To cause or bring an effect into being, the Fighter would initially need to have LoS and LoE when they Mark the target or make the attack that Mark's the target.
The question(s) are, what breaks a mark?
In the "spirit" of the rules, the marked creature is worried about and distracted by the Fighter, thus taking a penalty to hit others.
Question 1: Does the marked creature have to be able to target the Fighter in order for the mark to be sustained? (assuming the Fighter does not have to continue to attack the marked creature for the mark to remain)
Answer 1: So, if the marked creature, an Orc Warrior, is Stunned (can't take any actions) and still right next to the Fighter who has his sword in hand, but is fighting the Hill Giant to his right, is the Orc Warrior still marked? The Orc is clearly unable to target the fighter with any kind of attack, even though the Orc has LoS and LoE. I would think that we would all say that the orc is still marked. Thus, in at least one case, the mark remains even though the marked creature cannot target the Fighter.
Question 1b: If a creature that is marked AND who is able to launch an attack cannot target the Fighter, does the mark remain?
Answer 1b: Hmmm...now, if we wanted to go down this rabbit hole, we'd need a huge server to document all of our unique situations... I'm of the position that based soley on my example above, a marked creature can still be marked, even if they cannot target the marking creature with an attack; RAW.
Question 2: Do you need LoS and LoE for a mark to remain?
Answer 2: This was a bit tougher. There are quite a few other conditions where the one who inflicts the condition, e.g. on-going fire damage, on-going poison damage, dazing, etc. can inflict the condition and then just totally leave the area and the condition will remain. Even though that pesky Drow shot me with the poison dart, just because he shadow stepped away to Menzo and he can't attack me anymore, I'm still poisoned (until I make my save).
It's easy to rationalize still being on fire or poisoned even if the instigator is long gone. Also understandable that you could be dazed for a long time even though the Storm Giant who hit you over the head has run off, chasing that little Kender who stole his golden harp. With a mark, it is much more difficult to imagine as these other effects are "passive" in nature, like a Shoot and Forget missile. A mark seems to imply that even after marking someone, you have to be more "active" (e.g. still be a threat) for the mark to remain effective. That's why, if the Fighter is Dying or Unconsious, the mark ends as the Fighter is no longer a threat.
To be a threat, you need to at least have LoE to launch an attack (w/o taking multiple actions). What is a threat? If the marked creature sees the armored fighter with sword and shield who is restrained by quicksand, and who is 15 feet away, is the monster still marked? I'd say so, as the fighter "could" be a half elf with magic missiles say or have some other non-obvious ranged attack the monster would have NO WAY OF KNOWING about. Note the caps, this will become important later. If the monster saw the fighter fall into a 60' deep stone pit and then a 2,000 lb stone cover sealed the pit, cutting of LoS and LoE, would the mark remain? Hmmm...there'd be no reasonable way that the Fighter would be a threat to the monster, one would have to say, no, the mark couldn't possibly remain, if the fighter has to do something "active" after initiating the mark.
I thought about this a lot and came up with the "Leaving the Battle" idea. Unlike other conditions and effects, I'd say a mark ends if the Fighter has left the field of battle and cannot reasonably effect any creatures within the battle. So, if a Fighter marked an orc and then ran 15' around the corner of a 10' high wall, cutting off both LoS and LoE, the mark should STILL REMAIN as the fighter could move back around the wall on his next turn and charge the marked orc. Conversely, the orc could reasonably conclude that he could move to the corner and have a chance of throwing his hand axe at the fighter. The fighter is still in the initiative order and in the area. Thus I'm defining "In the Battle" as still in the initiative order and affecting creatures in the battle. By taking this position, it would not be allowed for a Fighter to Mark every enenmy in a battle, and then plane shifting say two galaxies away to his bedroom and all the enemies are still marked.
Bottom line - RAW, I'm of the position that the Fighter can mark creatures and then become basically untargetable and the mark will remain. I think we would all agree that if the Fighter marked the creature and then turned invisible, teleported and stealthed but was still next to the marked creature and could still attack the marked creature, the target should still be worried about the Fighter. Note, in this example the marked creature could randomly attack into the Fighter's square if they got lucky and selected the right square.
Which leads me to the final conclusion, yes, the mark should remain even if the marked creature cannot target the Fighter. The marked creature has no way of knowing or not, if the fighter is still in the area or not and thus, still should be "worried" about the fighter. One could make an argument that to be a crediable threat, the Fighter would have to have LoE to all of his marked targets, but the position that just "being in the battle" is enough is a supportable position as the fighter can charge around the corner, or a pillar even, makes a fighter that is just in the area a threat.
I'm also of the position that if the Fighter leaves the battle, the mark is broken, just as if the Fighter were dying or unconsious. The fighter has left the battle, so they are not a threat anymore. Note, that the monster can't know if the fighter has left the battle or not, but it's not what the monster perceives, it is what the actual situation is. If the marked monster were blinded and the Fighter was knocked unconsious, the mark would be broken even though the blind monster still thought the fighter was nearby and a threat.
On a side note, even though I'm taking the position that a fighter can mark and then become untargetable, I do consider it poor tactics for the very heavily armored half defender with many hits and many surges to mark a number of opponents and then make themselves untargetable, opening up lanes of attack and leaving a much more lightly armored, lesser hit point ally (especially if that ally happens to be the party's healer) get swarmed and flanked by multiple foes who inflict more than 180 hit points of damage on said ally while the defender escapes the battle w/o a scratch.
Thu May 02, 2024 10:48 am by Teramotos
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