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Ross

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falling damage & dropping on top of you damage...

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Mick wrote:I'll try what Blade did.

free: drop my staff of defense into the tunnel and say catch
minor: grab Aura
standard: pull & drop her in the hole of the tunnel
move: jump into the hole of the tunnel

12' to the top of an 8' high tunnel so 2d6 damage to fall a total of 20'. But I need some help here...

If Ashe is unconscious and falls 20' into Telgarth's square (who's standing & conscious), then
Aura is unconscious and falls 20' into the the same square as Telgarth & now Ashe,
then Ember jumps down 20' into the same square as the other 3,...

How is the falling/dropping into your square damage calculated for everybody?

Also, I know you can let go of an item as a free action, can you toss to an adjacent square too as a free action or is that just your square? Related question: Can you pick up a body adjacent to your N and then move it to the adjacent square to your S & drop it with just a single standard (& possibly a free), or would that be 2 minors?

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Ross

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The ones falling should definitely take falling damage, but I think the ones they are falling on top of should get at least a saving throw to avoid being hit. After all it's a 5' square, and the falling person doesn't technically take up the whole square.

However, if they do hit I would think it would do almost as much damage to the target as the one falling, or maybe you could do it where they split the damage.

Dropping an item as a free action is only in your own square. Of course if your on a ladder it would go down.


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Hmm, before you said it was 12' from the trap door to the bottom...

Didn't know it was 20' total.


Damage is 1d10 for each 10' of the fall.

I'm not sure if the PCs are over 200lbs, probably not since they're teens...

Also, did you resolve Angelus' last action? He may be at the bottom of the pile...


Each falling PC would take 2d10.

From DnD Glossary:
falling objects
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects. Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen.

For each 200 pounds of an object's weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).

Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table 8-4: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.

Example: A magic flying ship tilts to one side and drops a 400-pound stone statue (a petrified comrade) overboard. The statue deals 2d6 points of damage to anything it strikes by virtue of its weight alone. If the ship were 100 feet in the air at the time, the falling statue would deal an additional 9d6 points of damage, for a total of 11d6.

For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage. For example, since a 30-pound metal sphere must fall 50 feet to deal damage (1d6 points of damage), such a sphere that fell 150 feet would deal 3d6 points of damage. Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.

Table 8-4: Damage from Falling Objects

Object
Weight Falling
Distance
200-101 lb. 20 ft.
100-51 lb. 30 ft.
50-31 lb. 40 ft.
30-11 lb. 50 ft.
10-6 lb. 60 ft.
5-1 lb. 70 ft.

Source: DMG

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Ross wrote:... I think the ones they are falling on top of should get at least a saving throw to avoid being hit...

Sounds reasonable, except that 2 are unconscious...

"Also, did you resolve Angelus' last action?" No, I didn't resolve any of the falling actions yet... I was waiting for clarification on if you'd get a free shift into the open squares to stand if you made your acrobatics or not.

"Hmm, before you said it was 12' from the trap door to the bottom..."

Hmm... If I did, let's change that. If the sewers are only 12' below the surface, 20'-8' height of tunnel, then logically a LOT of parking garages, etc would be hitting it. If we make it from the top, so there's 20' of ground for buildings et. al., it would be mostly underneath everything and not interfere with most constructions.

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If a PC fell on someone, then the person the PC hit would take 3d6 (1d6 for weight and 2d6 for distance).

If a PC fell on a PC that already has a PC on them... I think they would cushioned from some/all of the damage.

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bradly wrote:
"Also, did you resolve Angelus' last action?" No, I didn't resolve any of the falling actions yet... I was waiting for clarification on if you'd get a free shift into the open squares to stand if you made your acrobatics or not.

Hmm, it probably would have changed my action though...

Since Angelus is dazed he can't standup this turn.

If he didn't take any damage (not likely) could he continue his movement? Will have to look that up when I get home...

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Dwarmaj wrote:
Hmm, it probably would have changed my action though...

Since Angelus is dazed he can't standup this turn.

If he didn't take any damage (not likely) could he continue his movement? Will have to look that up when I get home...

Alright, depending on what you find out, & if Stu chimes in with some input (& what he says), we might just backtrack 1/2 this round & redo starting from your actions. Aura's & Ashe's actions will obviously be the same...

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I think Angelus would be prone if he jumped down since the height is greater than 10'.

He'd get to make an athletics check to reduce the damage but since Telgarth is in that square he can't remain standing.

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bradly wrote:
Dwarmaj wrote:
Hmm, it probably would have changed my action though...

Alright, depending on what you find out, & if Stu chimes in with some input (& what he says), we might just backtrack 1/2 this round & redo starting from your actions. Aura's & Ashe's actions will obviously be the same...


At the time, Angelus' choices were:

To shift 2 and gain resist all 5. But this leaves him as the only target...

or

Move and drop down the hole and use Acrobatics to reduce the damage (probably taking no damage if it was 12'). Increasing the distance to 20' means he'll probably take 5-10hp.

Given those choices, I think he'll still go down the hole.

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...okay, just got back from the late class. Today we practiced FALLING! Yes, damage is 1d10 per 10' fallen, not 1d6. Further, the 1d10 damage assumes that the creature falling is landing upon a relatively hard surface (e.g. ground, not water or a haystack etc). Addressing the damage to the creatures falling: if they fall and land on the ground (and not another PC) then they would take normal falling damage. If the falling PC lands upon something softer than hard ground, then I'd reduce damage to the creature falling accordingly. Landing on another person is clearly better than landing on concrete say and I'd reduce damage by 25% to 50%.

Addressing creatures being landed upon; if you think of the falling object (the falling PCs in this case) as an "attack" upon the PC's (awake or not) that are already in the square, then there is clearly a chance that the creatures already in the square may NOT be "hit" by the falling PC(s). Just as PC's can pass through each other's squares and just as any attack can miss, even an attack upon a helpless creature grants CA and the helpless creature is -5 to defenses (still not an automatic hit). Now an "attack" presumes that the fall is aimed at the target PC (defender) and that is really not the case here. In fact the jumping PC's might actually "aim" to miss thier helpless comrades. Regardless, if a helpless PC is landed upon by another PC, the PC landed upon could reasonably take damage per Ken's post above. Since the PC's probably weigh less than 200 lbs, they would have to fall 20' in order to inflict a maximum of 1d6 damage to a creature they land upon. I'm unclear regarding the total distance of the fall. In this case, the falling creatures are NOT trying to inflict damage upon those they land upon and in addition, the falling objects are people not solid hard objects so there is a very reasonable position for reducing damage from the 3d6 (per post above) to half.

I'm pretty sure you can only drop an object in your square.

You can use a minor action to pick up objects that are within reach (e.g. within one square) pg 246 RC. So, pick up (grab hold of) a body within reach - Minor; drag to next square - Standard; drop - Free.

At the end of the turn, there can be only one standing PC in the square.

If a faller lands in the square where there is already a standing PC and the faller STILL has available movement left, I don't see why they couldn't use thier available remaining movement. If the faller is standing at the end of the fall (after all damage to the faller and any PC landed upon is calculated) and they have no movement left and the other PC is still standing, then the faller would fall prone regardless if they made a check to land on their feet.

I do not see how it is relative if the faller took damage or not regarding if they can use remaining movement. As long as the faller is conscious at the end of the fall and has movement left, I'd rule they can use the remaining movement. I suppose the question of damage comes into play if the faller has very few hit points left when the fall began.

The other possible outcome is that the faller lands in the square and hits the standing PC already in the square. The PC that was standing there drops to zero hits or lower as a result of the impact, falls prone and is dying. Since the PC that was standing in the square is now down, the PC that fell into the square CAN be standing at the end of the fall because he/she would now be the only PC standing in the square.

The last outcome I can think of is that the PC falls into the square, is prone, still has more than 1 hit point, and still has movement left. pg 203 RC implies that a crawling creature may move up to 1/2 it's speed. I'm not clear if a PC with a speed of 6 could (walk) 2 squares, be knocked prone in the middle of it's move action by an outside force and then crawl 2 squares. Alternately, use 4 squares to jump and land (prone) and then crawl 1 square.

Did I cover everything?

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Hmm, so in the situation we have...

Angelus moved 3, then jumped down 20'.

He took no damage since he made his Athletic check.

He can then continue his movement since he did not fall prone.

Correct?


If he had fallen prone and had another action, he could have stood up and gotten a free shift since an ally was standing in that square. Correct?

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Teramotos wrote:...
I do not see how it is relative if the faller took damage or not regarding if they can use remaining movement.

Did I cover everything?

That's per the tumble rules. Any fall farther than 10' is auto damage + prone. An exception is from the acrobatics skill, which says if trained can reduce this damage, and if reduced all the way to no damage, not prone either.

...& I think so.

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Regarding your other post that went up as mine did, yeah, that's what I'd have thought, same as moving through an ally's square in any other situation. But I trust your knowledge of the rules over than mine!...

Dwarmaj wrote:
As far as damage to PCs from falling objects I would think the same rules should be used whether there is one PC or more than one.

If you're going to say they get a save for full/no damage then both should get a save.

Distributing the damage would be more realistic, but also more complex.

What does everyone else think of the feedback here? (What shall we officially go with?)

I'm fine with anything suggested so far, including nerfing the 3d6 damage since it's true an ally landing on an ally would both be trying to soften theirs & each others landings if possible...

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But if the faller didn't take any damage from the acrobatics(slowing/absorbing his fall) How does the person on the bottom take damage? It would seem like the person on the bottom would have two chances to 'save'. The fallee's athletic save and his own dodge.

It would seem like if the faller failed his roll, then he would take damage. The person on the bottom would then have to save to avoid damage.

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Ken wrote: He can then continue his movement since he did not fall prone. Correct?

If he had fallen prone and had another action, he could have stood up and gotten a free shift since an ally was standing in that square. Correct?
Yes, I think Ken is correct here. Did we sit next to each other in Logic at the U? I know we sat next to each other in Greek Mythology.

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jibuki wrote:It would seem like the person on the bottom would have two chances to 'save'. The fallee's athletic save and his own dodge.

That kind of does make sense too. Devil's advocate though, the faller's acrobatics check might represent using anything on the way down to break their fall, including allies.

If the faller is trained and rolls high enough to avoid all but say 3 hits, should the landee's dropped on damage be capped to 3 hits as well? (...if missed his save?)

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Do you have enough info to resolve the actions now?

I think Angelus' actions are resolved.

Not sure about:

1. I'm not sure if Telgarth would take damage from Angelus jumping into his square and moveing.
2. Not sure if Telgarth would take damage from an unconscious PC falling in his square.
3. Not sure if an unconscious PC would get a save if another PC fell on them.

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Yeah, sort of... Let's not use this encounter as precedent though.

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Did we rule a PC could grab a down PC next to them with a minor and with a standard pull them to the trap door then free drop them thru the trap door?

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Mick wrote:Did we rule a PC could grab a down PC next to them with a minor and with a standard pull them to the trap door then free drop them thru the trap door?


Yes, that's 2 actions & a free. Actually, let's make the 2 actions a minor & a move (not a standard).

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bradly wrote:
Mick wrote:Did we rule a PC could grab a down PC next to them with a minor and with a standard pull them to the trap door then free drop them thru the trap door?


Yes, that's 2 actions & a free. Actually, let's make the 2 actions a minor & a move (not a standard).

Wouldn't it be 1 minor and 1 free?

It's a minor action to pick up an unattended object in an adjacent square.

An unconscious PC is pretty close to an unattended object.

I think the only issue would be the weight of the PC. There are no rules that say it takes more than a minor action to pick up a heavy object commpared to a light object.


Any items they dropped would still be on the ground as only the PC was grabbed.


In my opinion...
Blade could use his Minor and Move to grab two things (items or unconscious PCs). Free action to drop them, then use a standard to move/teleport.

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Didn't someone say items dropped as a free action can't be in the adjacent space but in their space.

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Mick wrote:Didn't someone say items dropped as a free action can't be in the adjacent space but in their space.

Yes, that's why it's a minor action to pick up, then a 2nd action to move it to over the other adjacent square to drop. Otherwise, it'd be only a single minor action to pick up & free to drop where they are.

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My position is that it would be a minor to "pick up" the other PC. If you were to then "drop" the other PC, it could only be in the acting PC's square. As such, it will take an action of some sort to move the item just picked up to another square (other than the acting PC's square) that is with reach (of 1 in this case). It seems the only question is, should it be a move or a standard action to move the grabbed PC to the next square? I can go with a "Move" action.

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