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Multiclass OoE...

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1 Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:22 pm

bradly wrote:
That Oath is pretty cool...

Did a little research to see if the oath could be used by other characters and found the Avenger Multiclass feat Disciple of Divine Wrath.

My question is... If a multiclassed avenger used their oath power and killed the target, do they regain the use of it?

Looks like it could come in handy when fighting a lot of minions or waiting until something is almost dead, use it, then get it back.

Thoughts...


Disciple of Divine Wrath [Multiclass Avenger]
Prerequisite: Wis 13
Benefit: You gain training in Religion. Once per encounter, you can use the avenger’s oath of enmity power. The effect lasts until the end of your next turn.

In addition, you can wield avenger implements.

Oath of Enmity
You focus your wrath on a single foe, giving your attacks against it extraordinary accuracy.

Encounter (Special) Divine
Minor Action Close burst 10

Target: One enemy you can see in burst

Effect: When you make a melee attack against the target and the target is the only enemy adjacent to you, you make two attack rolls and use either result. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until the target drops to 0 hit points, at which point you regain the use of this power.If another effect lets you roll twice and use the higher result when making an attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack. If an effect forces you to roll twice and use the lower result when making an attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack either.
If an effect lets you reroll an attack roll and you rolled twice because of this power, you reroll both dice.

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2 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:33 pm

I believe the ruling that most people go with is yes if you can drop the enemy in 1 round or someone else drops the enemy before the end of your next turn then you get the use of it back.

If I remember right there are actually two versions of the multiclass. One lets you do it until the end of your next turn and one lets you do it on one creature but you can't regain the use of the power.

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3 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:02 pm

I agree with Chris, yes, but the feat says "until the end of the next TURN", while the class ability says "until the end of the ENCOUNTER". Except for the much shorter duration, I'd say they work the same...

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4 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:22 pm

bradly wrote:I agree with Chris, yes, but the feat says "until the end of the next TURN...

True, but if you're fighting minions, you'll regain the power each round as long as you hit at least once.

If you're able to use this with Twin Strike then you'll get two rolls with each attack (four chances to hit per round).

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5 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:38 pm

Dwarmaj wrote:but if you're fighting minions, you'll regain the power each round as long as you hit at least once.

hmm... re-reading it again, would you? The feat descriptor states how long the effect lasts, but excludes that all important 'or..."

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6 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:44 pm

The feat just says you get OoE and that it lasts until the end of your next turn.

OoE itself says that if your target is reduced to zero you regain the use of the power.


The way I read it was that if your target isn't killed before the end of your next turn you loose OoE until your next encounter. If the target is killed, you can use it again.

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7 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:59 pm

Both specify durations though and they are different. I would assume they are the same except where it specifies a difference, such as duration sans 'or'.

I don't know though. this is a mind change from when I first read it.

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8 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:17 pm

Ross

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You can only use it once per encounter, thus no regaining the use of it, since you would then be using it more than once per encounter, regardless of when the target is dropped.


_________________
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Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
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9 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:30 pm

Ross wrote:You can only use it once per encounter, thus no regaining the use of it, since you would then be using it more than once per encounter, regardless of when the target is dropped.

By definition an Encounter power can only be used once per encounter (an avanger can only use it once per encounter, unless they regain the use of it). But, specific rules override general rules.

OoE specificly says that if the target drops to zero you regain the use of the power.


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10 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:48 pm

Here's a link to a discussion on EnWorld about the avenger multiclass feats:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/260350-avenger-multiclass-feats.html


There are two Avenger multiclass feats that grant OoE. It looks like Hero of Faith was errata'd so that it ends on the first hit. Disicple of Divine Wrath has not been errata'd.

Note: A half-elf Avenger could use the Twin Strike + OoE combo as well.

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11 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:04 am

Ross

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Well 'specifically' the power is the base rule and the Feat is altering the rules of the power, and it says you can only use it once per encounter. IMO it doesn't need any errata because it's clear.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

12 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:27 am

Ross wrote:Well 'specifically' the power is the base rule and the Feat is altering the rules of the power, and it says you can only use it once per encounter. IMO it doesn't need any errata because it's clear.

Encounter powers can only be used once per encounter, unless the power says otherwise.

Following your logic Avengers shouldn't be able to have it recharge either.


Brad's arguement was that OoE has an or statement and that both parts should be replaced.

This effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until the target drops to 0 hit points, at which point you regain the use of this power.


All I was saying (and what most say on the forums) is that only the duration changes.

Like:
This effect lasts until the end of your next turn or until the target drops to 0 hit points, at which point you regain the use of this power.

Note: I'm just looking at RAW. I think once per encounter is good enough. Most encounters are 8-10 rounds so using it for 2+AP every encounter is enough since its from a feat and not a feature of the base class.

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13 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:02 am

In a thread on the WotC forum someone got a reply from WotC support:
WotC errata thread

Thank you for contacting us. The Disciple of Divine Wrath feat only allows you to use the Oath of Enimity power once per encounter. You do not get to regain the use of this power. Thanks as well for your suggestion, and feedback. We have regular meetings with the team that is responsible for this product and will pass all comments on to their attention. While we cannot guarantee a response to your feedback, we can promise that your comment will be heard.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

Game On!

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14 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:58 pm

Ross

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Hey, that's exactly what I said.

And no, you would still regain your power as a full Avenger using my logic, because an Avenger doesn't have the Disciple of Divine Wrath feat hindering them. Thus my logic is still totally logical and RAW.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

15 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:38 pm

Ross wrote:Hey, that's exactly what I said.

Hey, that's exactly what I said too! Of course, I said both ways! Very Happy

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16 Re: Multiclass OoE... on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:48 pm

Can the Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor be used to use the Multiclass OoE an additional time?

Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor
Level 15 Uncommon

Modelled after the signet rings worn by the dragonborn emperors of Arkhosia, this item enhances your attacks, particularly if you are a dragonborn.

Price: 25,000 gp
Item Slot: Ring
Property: Gain a +3 item bonus to damage rolls with close attacks. If you are dragonborn, gain a +5 item bonus to damage rolls with your dragon breath.


Power (Daily): Immediate Reaction. Use this power when you become bloodied. Use one of your encounter powers. If you’ve reached at least one milestone today, you can use an encounter power that you have already expended. If you use a power that has not already been expended, you don’t expend the use of that power.

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