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Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread

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26 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm

Angelus has been using the Heroic version since level 7. Has it been too powerful up til now?

Currently, with the heroic version, when below zero hitpoints he has resist 10 all. Without that he can't stay below zero for more than a round or two since he dies at -Bloodied.

The item scales with the expected damage of the monsters. It does reduce the amount of damage taken, but has monster levels increase so does their damage.

The whole point of the build is to be able to fight while below zero hit points.


The combination of the belt and Revenants "Unnatural Vitality" has been around for a couple of years and WotC hasn't errata'd it.

It is powerful, but so are some of the abilities of some of the other PCs...

Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness:

Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness
Level 6+ Uncommon
This iron-plated belt was first crafted by the Sonnlinor to protect against the underhanded tactics of goblins and giants.

Lvl 6 1,800 gp Lvl 26 1,125,000 gp
Lvl 16 45,000 gp

Waist Slot

Property
You gain resist 10 to all damage when you have 0 hit points or fewer.
Level 16: Resist 20 to all damage
Level 26: Resist 30 to all damage

Power Daily (No Action)
Use this power when you would be reduced to 0 hit points by an attack. The attacker takes the same amount of damage that you took from that attack.

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27 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:32 am

I believe Angelus is using it as intended as there are several way to be below zero hitpoint and remain fighting. And no errata has come from WotC.

I'm not sure how it's too powerful as it's totally defensive in nature. There are also several ways around it...

How about leaving the item as is for now and just not handing it out the paragon/epic versions as treasure?

Since it's level 16 and uncommon a PC wouldn't be able to make it until 21st level. Once we get to 21st you can decide whether or not to allow it.

I'm still not sure how this is any more unbalancing than a PC that can evade being damaged (invisibility/interrupts) or one that has lesser resistance but a lot more hitpoints/surges (Jeff's PC from WAR).

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28 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:16 pm

Also...

Is Stormhawk's Vengence "too" powerful (I took it at 16th)?


Stormhawk's Vengeance
Benefit: If an enemy reduces you to 0 or fewer hit points with an attack, it takes 10 thunder damage. This damage increases to 20 at 11th level and 30 at 21st level.

ie, the Ranger in the last battle would have killed himself if he had attacked (and hit) Angelus...

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29 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:02 pm

@ Dwarmaj - re: Stormhawk's Vengenance - hmmm...doesn't seem any more powerful than some Marks that Defenders have where the monster takes some huge amount of Radiant damage each time they attack some PC other than the Defender...someone remind me what character class does this and what the damage is at 17th level (and can the damage be boosted with certain items and feats?).

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30 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:24 pm

Paladins have the mark that does radiant damage.

Divine Challenge
You boldly confront a nearby enemy, searing it with divine light if it ignores your challenge.
At-Will Divine, Radiant
Minor Action Close burst 5
Target: One creature in the burst
Effect: You mark the target. The mark lasts until you use this power again. The mark also ends at the end of your turn if you didn’t engage the target, meaning you neither attacked it during your turn nor are adjacent to it at the end of your turn.
Until the mark ends, the target takes radiant damage the first time each round when it targets any of your allies with an attack power that doesn’t include you as a target. The damage equals 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Level 11: 6 + your Charisma modifier radiant damage
Level 21: 9 + your Charisma modifier radiant damage

Divine Sanction does the same damage but is usually applied via powers.

Ashe's mark does less than that since he is a hybrid Paladin but Divine Sanction functions the same as a normal Paladin. Most of the time the marks I use come from Divine Sanction rather than Divine Challenge. Ashe currently has a +8 CHA which is how he does 14 radiant damage per violation of the mark.

Might Challenge is a feat that will add my STR modifier to the damage (challenge only, not sanction) but I haven't taken that since I have no good way to force someone to disobey my mark.

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31 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:35 pm

The reason I asked about the feat is that it has the exact same wording as the belt...

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32 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:00 am

The feat is different because it's giving out damage to NPCs which are built to go down anyway. Kind of a strawman. The belt is nixed at paragon level because it makes a PC too invulnerable. Way too few 'out of the box' monsters consistently do above 20 hits/attack. By comparison, the next waist item to grant resistence is three levels higher & says:

Belt of Raging Endurance
Property: You gain 1 healing surge
Power: (Encounter) immediate interrupt. Trigger: An enemy hits you and causes damage. Effect: You gain resist 25 against that attack, but also take 15 damage at the end of your next turn.

20 resist all, all the time is many orders of magnitude out of line with this. Every superhero has to have his Krypton.

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33 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:33 am

Is the heroic version OK?

How about the paragon version in epic?

Also, it's not Resist 20 all the time. It only kicks in when Angelus is at 0 or below HP. Usually doesn't kick in until the 2nd or 3rd encounter.

I agree that the paragon version is powerful but so are a lot of other combos.

The item by itself isn't powerful, it's the combination of
Racal ability: Unnatural Vitality (become dazed instead of conscious until 1 failed death save)
Superior Will: to get rid of dazed
2 Feat/2 Items to get +7 to death saves
Paragon Path: to remain conscious indefinitely


Note: The build I used for Angelus isn't the most powerful of it's type.
Revanant (Shadar-kai) with an Epic Destiny of Raven Consort is. Even without the belt you have to do their full HP in damage in a single round to kill them. When below zero they can get surgeless healing almost every round if needed.

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34 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:52 pm

Hmmm...comparing the Belt of Ragine Endurance as a stand alone item visa vie Angelus' situation; is that a valid comparison. How many factors did Ken's PC have to align in order to cause the item to work as it does? Just throwing that out there...

Now that I carefully read Dwarmaj's post above, I'm stating the exact same thing. It's took five power/ item/ feat selections to combine to get to where we are...not just a single item.

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35 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am

Guys, the thing is this: I've built out many of the paragon as well as epic encounters already. I have nothing planned that can challenge that item, so the choices are: Openly say Angelus is on Godmode for the rest of the campaign, jack up the monsters & encounters to match Angelus which would likely overpower the rest of the Slayers, assasinate Angelus in a way that removes him from the campaign, or else nerf that item. What does everybody think is the simplest and fairest? Any other solutions?

And yes, thank you for not picking the most broken build you could find, but if the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc most broken also doesn't fit the campaign, then it doesn't fit the campaign either. If this isn't obvious, I'm at a loss as to why not... Remember, the same monsters that are fighting Angelus are also fighting Aura. Remember too the most fun encounters have some excitement in them. You help me write this for everyone if none of the PCs are outliers. This is more difficult otherwise.

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36 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:14 am

Thanks, just needed an a reason other than "it's broken".

Though I don't think you'll be able to make a monster that Aura can stand up against that will still be a challenge to Angelus or a couple of other members of the party... (no offence to Aura...)

But in 4E, that's suppose to be ok. That's what defenders, controllers, and strikers are for. She only has to be able to take one or two hits and another member of the party will be there to help.

Taking our PCs out of it, it'll be hard to make monsters that won't kill a pure leader or controller that will still be a challange for a defender or striker.

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37 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:26 am

Ross

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Another alternative is to nerf it, like only allowing it to give resistance to all, with the exception of specific specific attacks, like Necrotic damage.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

38 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:10 am

Ross wrote:Another alternative is to nerf it, like only allowing it to give resistance to all, with the exception of specific specific attacks, like Necrotic damage.

That was his initial ruling...

I don't think having specific exceptions will work since I can always pick up resistances to those (I already have necrotic and cold resistance, only 5 now but could get higher). Also there are a couple of other items I can take that provide similar benefits...

The root of the problem as Brad pointed out is that he already has the monsters/encounters done.

There are some monsters that can slay Angelus with a single hit or take him totally out of the battle for multiple rounds. But they may not fit into his "story".


I guess my point is that if he's built his monsters to challenge or not kill Aura and not the entire party then it may already be too late.

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39 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:31 am

Ross

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Admin
He could always just say certain attacks by certain powers aren't effected by resistance, kind I like the way our stun negation doesn't work.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

40 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:46 am

Ross wrote:He could always just say certain attacks by certain powers aren't effected by resistance, kind I like the way our stun negation doesn't work.


Yes, but there are:
encounter interrupts that can avoid damage.
a feat that says you can reduce the damage take by an attack (not resistance so it'll work)
ways to burn a surge as a free action (I normally only use 3 surges per adventrue, if the belt is nerfed I'll probably have to use a few more).
a feat to become incorporeal, 1/2 damage.

The belt does make things easier, but there's lots of other stuff out there...

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41 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Tue May 01, 2012 11:46 am




====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Razalon, level 17
Elf, Ranger, Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Build: Archer Ranger
Fighting Style Option: Archer Fighting Style
Ranger Option: Prime Shot
Silent Hunter (Silent Hunter Benefit)
Theme: Noble Adept

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 21, DEX 26, INT 21, WIS 26, CHA 21

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 20, DEX 20, INT 20, WIS 20, CHA 20


AC: 32 Fort: 28 Ref: 30 Will: 29
HP: 113 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 28

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +17, Endurance +17, Nature +23, Perception +24, Stealth +21, Thievery +20

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +15, Arcana +13, Bluff +13, Diplomacy +13, Dungeoneering +16, Heal +16, History +13, Insight +16, Intimidate +13, Religion +13, Streetwise +13

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Noble Adept Feature: Adept's Insight
Elf Racial Power: Elven Accuracy
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Nimble Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Ranger Utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Wizard Utility 2: Feather Fall
Ranger Attack 3: Disruptive Strike
Ranger Attack 5: Spitting-Cobra Stance
Ranger Utility 6: Weave Through the Fray
Rogue Attack 7: Snap Shot
Ranger Attack 9: Attacks on the Run
Ranger Utility 10: Defensive Volley
Lyrandar Wind-Rider Attack 11: Wind Burst
Lyrandar Wind-Rider Utility 12: Zephyr Wings
Ranger Attack 15: Confounding Arrows
Ranger Utility 16: Word of Warning
Ranger Attack 17: Pounding Barrage

FEATS
Defensive Mobility
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)
Level 2: Wintertouched
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Bow)
Level 6: Bow Expertise
Level 8: Mark of Storm
Level 10: Sneak of Shadows
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 12: Treetop Sniper
Level 14: Novice Power
Level 16: Called Shot

ITEMS
Longsword
Deathcut Hide Armor +3 x1
Thunderbolt Greatbow +3 x1
Bracers of Archery (paragon tier) x1
Boots of Eagerness x1
Gloves of Ice (paragon tier) x1
Casque of Tactics (paragon tier) x1
Cloak of Distortion +3 x1
Ring of Giants x1
Diamond Cincture (heroic tier) x1
Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier) x10
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon tier)
====== End ======

Note:
I've assigned items of your level, but Buffyverse is a "low" magic world and Brad may say that you start with none of the items and you'll need to find them on your first adventure.

Items that your character must have to function are:
great bow
armor
cloak

Nice to have items are
Bracers
Gloves
Whetstones

The rest is just gravy...

Send me an email (KMills@q.com) and I'll send you info on the character builder

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42 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Tue May 01, 2012 1:11 pm

I think Brad allows you to start with 3 item of you level.
a 16th, 17th and 18th. and 16th item in GP.
He can have a few minor items made once he meets the right wizard.

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43 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Tue May 01, 2012 1:24 pm

Mick wrote:I think Brad allows you to start with 3 item of you level.
a 16th, 17th and 18th. and 16th item in GP.
He can have a few minor items made once he meets the right wizard.

Having an 18th, 17th, 16th, and 16th in gold is the norm.

I remember Aura started with nothing and got a bow and a couple of other items after defeating a vampire.

When I created the character I used the normal rules to figure out how much gold and bought items.

If it's three items only then:
Thunderbolt Greatbow +4 (18th level)
Deathcut Hide Armor +3 (15th level)
Bracers of Archery (15th)

There's really nothing good for his PC that's 16th or 17th so he's basically loosing 60k in value by taking two 15ths. Sad

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44 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Tue May 08, 2012 9:26 am

Archiving Angelus...

Angelus




17th version:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Angelus, level 17
Revenant, Monk, Avenging Haunt
Build: Stone Fist Monk
Monastic Tradition Option: Stone Fist
Choose your Race in Life: Half-Elf
Wandering Mercenary (Wandering Mercenary Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 24, CON 23, DEX 26, INT 21, WIS 21, CHA 21

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 20, CON 20, DEX 20, INT 20, WIS 20, CHA 20


AC: 34 Fort: 29 Ref: 31 Will: 33
HP: 115 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 28

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +21, Athletics +20, Perception +18, Religion +18, Stealth +21

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +13, Bluff +13, Diplomacy +13, Dungeoneering +13, Endurance +16, Heal +13, History +13, Insight +13, Intimidate +15, Nature +13, Streetwise +13, Thievery +16

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Revenant Utility: Dark Reaping
Monk Feature: Stone Fist Flurry of Blows
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Monk Attack 1: Five Storms
Monk Attack 1: Fallen Needle
Monk Attack 1: Eagle Claw Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Monk Utility 2: Fighting Fury
Monk Attack 5: Disrupting Fist
Monk Utility 6: Quicksilver Motion
Monk Attack 9: Immolating Fist
Monk Utility 10: Spider Technique
Avenging Haunt Attack 11: Deathly Retort
Avenging Haunt Utility 12: Haunting Form
Monk Attack 13: Torrent of Falling Knives
Monk Attack 15: Dancer on the Sea of Battle
Monk Utility 16: Stance of the Still Sword
Monk Attack 17: Three Winds Kick

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Half-Elf Soul
Level 6: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 11: Starblade Flurry
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Disciple of Death
Level 14: Restless Dead
Level 16: Stormhawk's Vengeance

ITEMS
Monk unarmed strike x1
Boots of the Fencing Master
Rhythm Blade Dagger +1 x1
Ki Dagger +1
Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness (heroic tier) x1
Power Jewel
Salve of Power
Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor x1
Circlet of Second Chances x1
Winged Boots x1
Blurred Strike Ki Focus +3 x1
Gauntlets of Blood (paragon tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1
Bloodthread Githweave Armor +3 x1
Raven Cloak +3 x1
====== End ======



Paragon Wish List
Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness, paragon (lvl 16 item)
Blurred Strike Ki Focus (upgraded from +3 to +4) (lvl 20)
Bloodthread Mindweave Armor +4 (lvl 20)


Projected Epic Destiny
Raven Knight


Zodiac Scar:
Angelus has a Blood Red Gemini (about 2" in height) on his left bicep.


Angelus has a Black symbol of the Raven Queen over his heart (about 4" in height)

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45 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm

Archiving Angelus...
Is he leaving the campaign? Replacing with a new character?
How does that work into the storyline with only 12 PC slots and all filled by now.
Brad, is switching out a PC an option for everyone?

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46 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed May 09, 2012 5:33 pm

I'd like to switch PCs as I really think the party could use a defender and we've been playing these chars for the last year and a half.

Angelus plays like a striker/defender, but has no way to deter monsters from going after the leaders. A defender with a mark and other punishment features can do that. It would be much more efficient for the leaders to heal someone with more HP/surges than it is for them to heal themselves.

Ashe does that on occasion, but can't make it very often.

I've sent Brad a history and summary of the new PC. He hasn't said no, but hasn't said ok either...

Since I was planing on retiring Angelus, I was hoping to have the new PC have equivalent gp value in items. (at least that's what I currently have equipped on them). At a minimum though any new PC needs appropriate magic weapon/armor/neck items otherwise they'll have a hard time hitting anything or evading enemy attacks.

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47 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed May 09, 2012 6:44 pm

Ross

avatar
Admin
We coul always say Angelus collapsed after that last encounter an died. Then his mark went to your new character.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

48 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed May 09, 2012 7:24 pm

...or better yet, Angelus LOST HIS SOUL and became evil. Evil or Very Mad Razz
...oh wait, his name was "Angelus" wasn't it, not Angel.
He can still join the bad guys; that would be an interesting twist.
Maybe one of our Epic quests will be to find an old witch and try to infuse Angelus' soul back into his body after which he will have an aversion to fighting and become a priest. Alternately, one of our Epic quests could be to dust Angelus...(where's Spike when you need him?).

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49 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Wed May 09, 2012 7:49 pm

Don't give Brad too many ideas...

I don't think we want to fight Angelus, especially in Epic. Evil or Very Mad

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50 Re: Buffy-verse PC (only) Thread on Thu May 24, 2012 10:01 am

bradly wrote:
First encounter then will be in Egypt...

Brad, did you read the history for Aya that I sent you (about a month ago)? It's also posted with the PC on the Buffyverse PC thread.

Does it need to be revised? Her inital race was Water Genasi before she became Warforged. Not sure if I need to change it to another type of Genasi, something more desert like.

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