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Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake?

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1 Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:57 pm

If Angel were to have a wooden stake in one hand and dealt FoB damage, could he flurry with the stake to dust a vampire?

The power does say its a melee power and that you "lash out" and do automatic damage.

Stone Fist Flurry of Blows
You lash out at another enemy after your first attack, a casual reminder of your great strength.

At-Will Psionic
Free Action Melee 1

Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn

Target: One creature
Level 11: One or two creatures
Level 21: Each enemy adjacent to you

Effect: The target takes damage equal to 3 + your Strength modifier. If the target wasn’t targeted by the triggering attack, the damage increases by 2 (4 at 11th level and 6 at 21st level).

Special: You can use this power only once per round.

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2 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:06 pm

Ross

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I would think it would have to be a weapon power.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

3 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:18 pm

Ross wrote:I would think it would have to be a weapon power.

I think so too. I envision FoB as kicking behind you as you punch in front of you, etc. and auto hits because the enemy is worried about your weapon hand and forgetting about the monk's deadly feet...

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4 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:45 pm

I agree that it would have to be a weapon power. FoB is akin to; strike with the finger tips, then bend back the fingers and strike with the fist, then bend the arm and hit with the elbow, and in the same motion spin the same direction and hit him with a spinning hook kick with the opposite leg followed by a back fist with the opposite hand.

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5 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:49 pm

Flurry of Blows is usable even if you're not fighting unarmed.

To make an unarmed attack (even with feat, elbows, head) you have to have at least one hand free.

A monk wielding two daggers could still flurry.

The biggest reason it isn't a weapon attack is that weapon bonuses, properties, and other magical affects would be added in.

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6 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:35 pm

Ross

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Correct. You could flurry with other body parts besides your hands,however, your still not using the weapons in your hand to flurry. Thus you could have the stake in your hand, but you still couldn't use it during your flurry.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

7 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:13 pm

There are several feats that augment FoB...

Crashing Tempest Style: +2 FoB damage when wielding a club

Pointed Step Style: when wielding a spear you can flurry one target up to 2 squares away

Skipping Stone Flurry: If you have a sling in hand you can flurry a target up to 10 squares away and not provoke an AoO.

Starblade Flurry: when wielding a dagger you can flurry a target up to 5 squares away.


True these are all feats, but they show that you can flurry with a weapon...

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8 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:46 pm

So, does the base question boil down to: can the monk FoB and include a weapon in one hand but not gain any "extra" damage with the weapon or any extra "to hit" and not have to burn a feat but gain the advantage of using the weapon's unique ability to "finish off" the opponent in question?

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9 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:50 pm

Was just curious if I had a stake in hand, and used it for FoB, if it would slay a Buffy-verse vampire.

I am using the stake with a melee attack...

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10 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:54 pm

Teramotos wrote:So, does the base question boil down to: can the monk FoB and include a weapon in one hand but not gain any "extra" damage with the weapon or any extra "to hit" and not have to burn a feat but gain the advantage of using the weapon's unique ability to "finish off" the opponent in question?

Looks to be, and Ken's last post is a pretty compelling argument imo. I'm about to change my mind...

Dwarmaj wrote:As a free action Angel will FoB the vampire that moved adjacent to him.

Killing him before he makes the attack on me.

Really? If you hit during an ambush round, then on it's initiative a monster moves in melee range, you can hold your flurry and use it on someone else's turn? I was of the impression it had to be used on your turn...

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11 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:56 pm

Ross

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They show that you can flurry with a weapon when you have a feat.
Can you poison when you flurry if you have a Stake that has poison on it?
If the Stake is silver is the flurry now counted as extra damage against lycanthropes?
If the Stake has a radiant quality is a flurry now radiant damage?

Sorry. Allowing this opens up to many broken combos.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

12 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:57 pm

Free Action
Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn. There is an exception to that rule: A creature can take a free action to use an attack power only once per turn. Creatures don’t normally have attack powers that can be used as free actions, but some powers and other effects grant the ability to use an attack power (usually a basic attack) as a free action. For example, a character might have two different abilities that let him or her make a melee basic attack as a free action when their respective triggers occur. If both abilities are triggered on the same turn, the character can make only one of the melee basic attacks during that turn.

In certain circumstances, the DM might decide to limit the use of free actions further. For instance, if an adventurer has already used free actions during a particular turn to talk, drop things, and use a class feature, the DM might rule that the adventurer can use no more free actions during that turn.

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13 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:02 pm

Hmm

Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn

I wasn't sure if you must attack when the trigger occurs or if you can use it any time until the start of your next turn.

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14 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:03 pm

Ross

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Admin
Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn

I think this means it triggers at the exact time that you hit something. You can't hold it.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

15 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:04 pm

Ross wrote:They show that you can flurry with a weapon when you have a feat.
Can you poison when you flurry if you have a Stake that has poison on it?
If the Stake is silver is the flurry now counted as extra damage against lycanthropes?
If the Stake has a radiant quality is a flurry now radiant damage?

Sorry. Allowing this opens up to many broken combos.

No problem, use just curious...

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16 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:05 pm

Ross

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Admin
I just see that ruling as being abused with other powers. For instance could I then hold this power and use it later?

Voyage of the Ancients
Using the cover of your assault, you vanish and leave a bewildered foe in your wake.
Encounter Teleportation
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You hit an enemy with a close or area attack
Effect: You teleport 3 squares. Choose a single enemy you hit with the attack. You and one ally you can see gain combat advantage against that enemy until the end of your next turn.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

17 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:08 pm

Dwarmaj wrote:
Free Action
Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn. .

Yes, but if the free action is tied to a trigger, the trigger also has a delayed timer? I'll go with it if that's really the rule, but I don't think it's a "storable" power...

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18 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:10 pm

Ross wrote:Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn

I think this means it triggers at the exact time that you hit something. You can't hold it.

The trigger says you hit with an attack during your turn it doesn't say you have to use it immediately.

What if I use a standard to attack something, then a move, then flurry all during my turn?

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19 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:12 pm

Ok, I guess for now trigger must be used immediately.

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20 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:13 pm

...agree, can't hold it. Have to use it right after the trigger.

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21 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:21 pm

Ross

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Admin
If something is triggered you have to use it right away.

If your saying you can hold something that has been triggered how about we trigger everything 10 minutes before a battle and then save all of them up for when we need it. Maybe we can save them for a few adventures later, eh. "Hey remember back when I was 5th level, and I didn't use my flurry of blows on that attack against the Orc? Well I'm going to use it now that I'm 10th level. After all it's been triggered."


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

22 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:33 pm

Ross wrote:Well I'm going to use it now that I'm 10th level. After all it's been triggered."

Flurry specificly says you hit with an attck during your turn.

When you next turn comes up again flurry can't be used since you haven't hit anything this turn yet.

You guys are probably right, just didn't see anything in the rules that states one way or the other how it should be handled...

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23 Re: Buffy-verse... FoB with a wooden stake? on Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:38 pm

Ross

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Admin
Technically it still meets the requirement for saving it for later. You did still hit 'during your turn', just not that turn when you were 10th level.

"Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn" (doesn't say your current turn).


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

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