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Combat Advantage

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1 Combat Advantage on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:05 am

So, if two PC's are flanking a Monster, and then a third PC moves into melee range of the already flanked monster, unless the third PC has some sort of feat or power, the third PC is not flanking the monster.

Seems to me that the presences of the third attacking PC would stretch the monster's defensive abilities even More than the addition of the second PC (who gets flanking).

What would the implications be if I house ruled that the third PC would get CA due to flanking in the above situation?

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2 Re: Combat Advantage on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:19 am

Ross

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Flanking is Flanking because they are on opposite sides of you.  You can't look completely behind you to watch for both attacks.  I don't see a need to house rule it. It makes us strategize more to get into position.

Plus there are some feats that allow similar things, and you diminish their usage.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

3 Re: Combat Advantage on Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:37 am

Not really taking a side, but Stu is asking a different question. Once CA is achieved, should additional attackers also gain advantage?

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4 Re: Combat Advantage on Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:18 pm

Ross

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Right and I don't think it adds anything. Just makes it easier for on flankers to get advantage, and makes it so people don't have to use powers or feats or flanking again to get it. Also using his reasoning if someone is flanked why wouldn't ranged attacks also get combat advantage automatically.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

5 Re: Combat Advantage on Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:47 pm

Also, it probably hurts PC more than monsters.

There's usually a lot more of them and would make it a lot easier for them to flank PCs.

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6 Re: Combat Advantage on Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:12 pm

Ross

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Yes, I think that's why Stu is bringing it up.

Dwarmaj wrote:Also, it probably hurts PC more than monsters.
There's usually a lot more of them and would make it a lot easier for them to flank PCs.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

7 Re: Combat Advantage on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:42 am

Yep, Fej is correct... the question I'm asking is should additional attackers beyond the first two who achieve flanking, also receive Combat Advantage? If a creature's attention is already stressed such that the first two attackers are getting an advantage, the introduction of additional attackers doesn't extend the same advantage to those additional attackers?

...and yes, it would tend to work against the PC's more than the monsters in most situations. In encounters where there are a lot of lesser monsters, and especially encounters where there are a lot of minions, the monsters would receive an advantage. In encounters where there is a solo or just a few elites, the PCs would gain an advantage.

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8 Re: Combat Advantage on Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:19 am

Ross

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I understand what your saying. Do you not understand what I'm saying?


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

9 Re: Combat Advantage on Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:38 pm

Yep, you're saying the PCs would have to use less strategy to gain flanking, taking away from those feats, skills and powers. Yes, I agree that would be the case. Hmmm... then, here's a thought, only NPCs gain the "easy" flanking, if only a PC is already flanked, then only (the third) monster gains flanking...

As far as ranged attacks getting automatic flanking, I'd have to be an attack where only the primary creature in question is the sole target...

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10 Re: Combat Advantage on Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:48 pm

Ross

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There are some monster that do get advantage when ganging up on opponents, just like your talking about.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

11 Re: Combat Advantage on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:01 pm

4th edition isn't about making combat "real", it's more about balance.

When they came up with the flanking rules I'm pretty sure they limited it to opponents on opposite sides for a reason. Most likely to make it difficult to achieve or something a character could maneuver out of.

House ruling it without a game mechanics reason doesn't seem the way to go.

Are PC defenses too high? or Monster attack bonuses too low?






Note: Aya had a simialar feat:

Warforged Tactics
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Warforged
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to melee attack rolls against an enemy that is adjacent to an ally.

When flanking she was +3 to hit, when not in flanking position she'd have +1 when fighting a monster engaged with another PC.

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12 Re: Combat Advantage on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:51 pm

Ross

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Admin
Stu just wants to damage us more. Very Happy


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

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