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Enshrouding Candle

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1 Enshrouding Candle on Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:56 am

Could the Enshrouding Candle be used by vampires to negate the effects of sunlight?

Enshrouding Candle:

Enshrouding Candle
Level 7
Uncommon

This everburning candle creates a dim corona of light that helps conceal you from foes.

Wondrous Item
        2,600 gp

Property
This candle sheds dim light in a 2-square radius, but it never burns down. Bright light within the candle’s radius is reduced to dim light.

Power (Illusion)     Daily (Standard Action)
When the enshrouding candle is lit, it generates an illusion within the area of its illumination. Creatures within the area are invisible to those outside the area, though other features within the area appear as normal. Sound (including speech) within the area is likewise inaudible to those outside. Creatures within the area are unaffected by the illusion and can perceive each other normally. Other senses are unaffected by the enshrouding candle. For example, a creature with tremorsense could locate characters in the area normally. Likewise, if characters within the area move objects around them, those moving objects can be seen.
The candle burns for 8 hours or until it is moved or extinguished (a minor action). If any character within the area of the illusion attacks, the candle is automatically extinguished.

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2 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:54 pm

I would think it'd have to be a tangible effect to block the Sun, not an illusary one. Plus, it says, "Creatures within the area are unaffected by the illusion" so I would think that also wouldn't help a Vampire inside the radius. Other thoughts?...

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3 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:09 pm

The daily power generates an illusion.

Not sure about the always on property.

The property states "Bright light within the candle’s radius is reduced to dim light.".

If a vampire were outside in the shade of an object, would they take damage?

I guess it really comes down to whether or not the property of the candle is an illusion that affects only the minds of those that see or if it really dims the light.

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4 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:40 pm

I believe that is meant that a party with an enshrouding candle can have a torch et al to see in the dark, yet not be observed by creatures with nightvision. I.e., from outside the radius, you cannot see bright flashlights from within well, but those within can see normally with their flashlights. I think you're reading that backwards. I don't read it to shade the Sun, which is outside the radius of the candle.

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5 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:32 am

Ross

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That's a good item for Stealthers. Always on partial concealment.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
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6 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:42 am

bradly wrote:I believe that is meant that a party with an enshrouding candle can have a torch et al to see in the dark, yet not be observed by creatures with nightvision. I.e., from outside the radius, you cannot see bright flashlights from within well, but those within can see normally with their flashlights. I think you're reading that backwards. I don't read it to shade the Sun, which is outside the radius of the candle.
Property
This candle sheds dim light in a 2-square radius, but it never burns down. Bright light within the candle’s radius is reduced to dim light.

The property of the candle clearly states that bright light within the radius is reduced to dim.

It makes no mention of affecting light outside the radius or how those outside view someone inside.

My question is...
Is the dim light inside the radius enough to prevent sunlight damage to vampires?

I can see it either way and don't have a vampire PC, but was curious...

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7 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:59 am

Ross

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Technically, Dim Sunlight is can still be Direct Sunlight.

Did we decide artificial UV light was the same as sunlight?


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

8 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:02 pm

Dwarmaj wrote:Bright light within the candle’s radius is reduced to dim light.
The Sun is  not within the candle's radius. Again, "Creatures within the area are unaffected by the illusion" . Unaffected by the illusion seems pretty clear.

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9 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:05 pm

Ross wrote:Technically, Dim Sunlight is can still be Direct Sunlight.

Did we decide artificial UV light was the same as sunlight?
Artificial sunlight for some reason was technology that never got developed in the Buffyverse...

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10 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:33 pm

bradly wrote:
Dwarmaj wrote:Bright light within the candle’s radius is reduced to dim light.
The Sun is  not within the candle's radius. Again, "Creatures within the area are unaffected by the illusion" . Unaffected by the illusion seems pretty clear.
I'm not sure how you're reading the power the way you are...

"Bright light" "within the candle's radius" "is reduced to dim light".

So if you have the candle outside on a bright sunny day, 10' radius around the candle will be dim light.

WotC thread describing using the candle



The daily power is an illusion, but is a separate ability of the candle from it's property.

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11 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:20 pm

Let's say that bright light (e.g. sunlight) is reduced to dim light within the candle's radius. So, if a vampire is struck by DIRECT (but dim) Sunlight, does the vampire take normal Sunlight damage? I'd say so. One could attempt to take the position that because the light is dim, the intensity is reduced and thus not effective. However, the vampire would still be getting struck by direct (but dim) sunlight and even if the sunlight is of diminished power, in the best case for the vampire, they would only take reduced damage, not no damage. As 4.0 attempts to simplify things, the added complication of differentiating between (regular) sunlight, (dim) sunlight and non-sunlight isn't worth the third (dim) category.

As to the phrase "...characters within the sphere are not affected..." well, that implies that the candle's power is illusionary so outside observers think that full sunlight appears dimmer from outsde but to those inside the sphere, the light from outside is still full sunlight. I guess the question here is, within the radius, is sunlight actually reduced to something other than sunlight, or does it just "appear" that the sunlight is reduced to something that it is not?

Am I missing something?

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12 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:07 am

1. The Daily power of the item is separate from the always active property.

2. I don't think this will actually affect a PC so this is mostly a theoretical discussion...

3. You could also make the argument that once the sunlight is "dimmed" it is no longer direct sunlight.
It has already been ruled that tinted windows will block out the harmful affects of sunlight to vampires.

The candle creates an area of dim light which would ordinarily be bright light.

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13 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:29 pm

Dwarmaj wrote:
It has already been ruled that tinted windows will block out the harmful affects of sunlight to vampires.

That is magical "necrotempered glass" from the tv show "Angel". A lot of cars have them, but not just regular tinting. Hope that helps.

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14 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:18 pm

Ross

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Your equating bright Light to sunlight.
Vampires are not affected by bright lights.
They are only affected by sunlight, or something that gives off Radiant damage, at least in DnD rules.

Also, nothing in the rules says it has to be bright sunlight. Just direct sunlight.
Technically speaking there is no such thing as direct sunlight on Earth because we have an atmosphere. However, atmosphere filtered sunlight is still harmful to a vampire. That's why a big  suit made of sunglasses wouldn't work to protect them.  
So even if this item worked to dim sunlight it still wouldn't protect vampires since it would still be direct sunlight, albeit dim.

Do you vampires really need to go to the trouble though? As I recall, on Buffy, Spike would run around under a big blanket during the day.


_________________
CHARACTERS:
Morbius Von Kas - Vryloka/Blackguard [4e-Rainbow Warriors Campaign]
Man'Tis Man'Todea - Thri-Kreen/Berserker [4e-Slave Lords Campaign]
Danilo Rand - Monk/Human [5e-Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign]
Nathan Grey - Ardent (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Walt Dixon - Bladesinger (4e-Terran One Campaign)
Battlefield 4 Soldier: Saturnicus
Diablo III Battletag: Saturnus#1572
Neverwinter: @bobpatrick.com
XBox GamerTag: Drizityn


Kazoo the Kender: "Hmm, I'll take....the Wand of Wonder." The rest of the party regretted giving Kazoo the first treasure pick.
View user profile http://twitter.com/NWGamerDude

15 Re: Enshrouding Candle on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:20 pm

There's 20 or so threads on WotC forums where they say the Enshrouding Candle does protect vampires from sunlight.

But those aren't official WotC customer service and Buffyverse uses custom rules for vampires...

No problem.

Another good use of the candle is with the Shadowdancer boots.

Shadowdancer's Boots:

Shadowdancer's Boots
Level 12
Uncommon

These sleek boots lighten your steps, particularly while shadow conceals you.


Feet Slot        13,000 gp

Property
You gain a +1 bonus to speed while you’re wearing light armor. This bonus increases to +2 when you start your turn in dim light or darkness.

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